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The Homeless
This got brought up in the other thread, but I didn't want to derail it.
What's your opinion of the homeless? I've had some fairly close contact with the homeless over the years, and I think I can break down their demographic into three major parts, and even assign them frequencies.
10% - Lazy assholes. These people have no real reason to be where they are, they just like welfare and beggary, and are willing and able to get along on that. These people deserve to be spit upon.
40% - Hopeless addicts. These people bring it on themselves, they're certainly not "victims." However, I can't say that I don't still have some sympathy for them.
50% - People with mental illnesses, who have nobody to take care of them, and who are genuinely unemployable. They're on the street because they're literally not capable of holding a job. Many (most) of them are schizophrenics, who can go six days out of the week totally cogent and coherent, as sane as anybody. But that one day a week where they have a schizoid episode makes it literally impossible for them to exist in normal society. They can't hold a job, and thus they become homeless.
Overall, I think I'm more sympathetic towards the homeless in Vancouver, from having interacted with them a bit.
How do you all feel about it?
What's your opinion of the homeless? I've had some fairly close contact with the homeless over the years, and I think I can break down their demographic into three major parts, and even assign them frequencies.
10% - Lazy assholes. These people have no real reason to be where they are, they just like welfare and beggary, and are willing and able to get along on that. These people deserve to be spit upon.
40% - Hopeless addicts. These people bring it on themselves, they're certainly not "victims." However, I can't say that I don't still have some sympathy for them.
50% - People with mental illnesses, who have nobody to take care of them, and who are genuinely unemployable. They're on the street because they're literally not capable of holding a job. Many (most) of them are schizophrenics, who can go six days out of the week totally cogent and coherent, as sane as anybody. But that one day a week where they have a schizoid episode makes it literally impossible for them to exist in normal society. They can't hold a job, and thus they become homeless.
Overall, I think I'm more sympathetic towards the homeless in Vancouver, from having interacted with them a bit.
How do you all feel about it?
Comments
As for the drug addicts and the lazy bums..
People should take responsibility for their own lives. There's always the option of getting drug treatment and/or getting a job. I'll claim that, with some effort, almost anyone could get cleaned up and get a job. I'm pretty sure the city provides the resources.
5% to 10% - Lazy assholes
70% - Addicts (some may be treatable others are hopeless)
20% to 25% - The mentally ill
100% - Criminal. If you're lazy, you'd rather steal than work. If you're an addict, you'll obtain money by any means necessary. If you're mentally ill, crime is inevitable (not that I have anything against the mentally ill; merely, being poor and having no treatment to address mental illness is the perfect recipe for a varying spectrum of crimes). Because many of them have engaged/are engaging/will engage in criminality, this makes them 100% unemployable as well.
Keep in mind, however, that these categories do not have to be mutually exclusive. I will not exclude the possibility of a mentally ill addict in a hopeless situation.
I do sympathize with the homeless. I would say 40% of their poverty can be traced to a choice that they made (i.e. a bad decision). I still sympathize with this group because we all make bad decisions at some point in our lives which we later regret. 50% of their poverty has to do with either being born and brought up in the wrong atmosphere or with some sort of mental deficiency (whether inborn or acquired in life). Again, I can't blame most of them: how would each of us turn out if we were brought up with little guidance and in a poor environment (and of course I won't blame the mentally ill). Perhaps the remaining 10% may be blameworthy but even their cases have to be closely examined.
It always amazes me that I see viciousness in the media and in popular discourse directed at a group of people that have comparatively little ability to alter their situation, but I suppose that is another manifestation of picking on the person that looks or acts different that I got to experience in high school thanks to a hearing impairment. People say things about homeless people that they wouldn't say about an abandoned dog.
I highly doubt that 50% of them are mentally ill.
The MAJORITY of them are lazy. There have been studies done on this (professional and otherwise). I know people who went downtown to spend A LOT of time with them and a lot of those bums said that they were too lazy to go and find a job.
There is no shortage of jobs here. Therefore, no, they will not get my money when they ask me for it. And yes, i will look down on them and give them horrid looks when they even TRY to talk to me. Fuck off, get a job and a life and stop being a complete and utter loser and bringing the image of our (and other) city down.
They cant find a job?? Bullshit! Go out and look. There are tons.
You can kick someone in the ass all you want but past a certain point it's just counterproductive.
I think your breakdown is accurate, in terms of the mental illness percentage portion because it is a very candid assumption. Because I believe mental illness also encompasses the fact that most homeless, at least the ones that I've seen, are rather socially awkward which is an indication of social anxiety. It's hard to find a job when you're not able to cope with being around other people without breaking out into hives, profuse sweating, and just plain nervousness.
On a side note, I've always wondered at the inherent, and perhaps cruel, irony that is prevalent when taking a bus downtown. There's a certain area where it is homeless ridden.....then it becomes downtown, the supposed prosperous location. Just like that. I've always wondered where that invisible line was and how the homeless and the supposedly wealthy are so close, yet so far.
1) A guy who had a dog and i felt for the dog, not the person, even tho the money i gave him prolly went towards drugs and not to the dog at all, i still gave it to him
2) A guy who had a sign that said, "Need money for marijuana." At least he was being honest, so i gave him some money for his honesty.
3) The guy on Hastings at that big intersection (by the Cassiar tunnel) that actually goes around and waves to people and picks up trash and what not....ive given him some money....he NEVER asks for money from anyone. People give it to him because he actually picks up trash and what not.
The others out there, no way. Seriously, its just sad, most of them are able to work. And yes, im sure that some company somewhere in Vancouver will hire someone who looks like them. Nonetheless, i dont personally know enough about this subject to argue about it. :)
But it is funny that We're in one of the richest countries in the world,
but the minimum wage is lower than it was thirty five years ago.
There are homeless people everywhere.
This homeless guy asked me for money the other day.
I was about to give it to him and then I thought he was going to use it on drugs or alcohol.
And then I thought, that's what I'm going to use it on.
Why am I judging this poor bastard.
People love to judge homeless guys. Like if you give them money they're just going to waste it.
Well, he lives in a box, what do you want him to do? Save it up and buy a wall unit?
Take a little run to the store for a throw rug and a CD rack? He's homeless.
I walked behind this guy the other day.
A homeless guy asked him for money.
He looks right at the homeless guy and says why don't you go get a job you bum.
People always say that to homeless guys like it is so easy.
This homeless guy was wearing his underwear outside his pants.
Outside his pants. I'm guessing his resume isn't all up to date.
I'm predicting some problems during the interview process.
I'm pretty sure even McDonalds has a "underwear goes inside the pants" policy.
Not that they enforce it really strictly, but technically I'm sure it is on the books.
I also think that you'd rather have these beggars break into people's houses and obtain money for drugs through theft because to give to a beggar is tantamount to supporting his habits and we'll have none of that, right?
I admire your integrity (you won't give to a poor person because you don't believe it's right and of course you won't support the drug trade by giving to them), but let me fill you in on something else. Pay attention because "[you] don't personally know enough about this subject to argue about it". Sometimes (and quite often with the homeless) it is not within a person's powers to change his/her environment. The will to change it is there and of course there is incentive. Yet the fact that the homeless are ostracized by people like you is what makes this change harder. If everyone (including prospective employers for the homeless) thought like you, who would hire these people? Why would anyone support the drug trade? The fact that intense addiction often blurs the line between the moral and the immoral does not help either. Some homeless may be good people yet temporarily rendered amoral by the unbridled desire for heroin. You, of course, come off as indifferent to their needs and couldn't care less.
Granted that people make mistakes, but should our blaming them stick with them for the rest of their lives? It is human nature to make mistakes (however significant or inconsequential) but it takes character to empathize and truly understand another. You, of course, don't want them begging for change, let alone want them looking at you, so enough about character...
So here's to making the world a safer place :thumbs_up: you thrifty little miser. May you conduct your day-to-day affairs ever more economically.
It wasn't this person, was it?
then there's a guy who's always at the richmond bus stops asking for change.. some ppl did give him some.. but those who regularly bus knew him and didn't bother.. i was one of them..
so i might not be helping them buy giving them cash.. yet i feel that sometimes giving them cash poses a certain degree of ignorance.. homeless people may need money.. but i think they need care more than that.. things like clothing.. food and shelter are much more useful than giving them a 20 dollar bill.. that's why i chose to help them in the way i feel they would truly benefit from.. i donate clothing and food every christmas and if time allows me.. i volunteer at the union gospel to cook up a meal or two..
Bottom line: You care so much, go give them YOUR money. Ive told you the three times ive given money to a homeless person. I would much rather support giving money to my local animal shelter than to them.
I think there should be a way to get them off of the streets, but its not up to me to do it. You wanna bitch about people not giving them money, go bitch to the government to do something, not to me. Its my money and i'll do what i please with it. Just like you'll do what you please with yours, which i assume will be giving it all to the homeless people downtown, right? Oh but of course!
Exactly. If he didnt want food, then what did he really want the money for?
Hmmm i wonder....what could it be? Whatever could he have wanted that money for?
:/
That may be weird to some but it's not as bad as some of my friends who pay bums to entertain them while they stand in line at a club...speaking of which has anyone seen Bum Fights?
I remember one guy saying he's getting a big mac, but I couldn't remember any Mcdonalds for a long ways around there, hahah
and yes no need to call me an asshole for asshole comments, I already know!
just doesn't like her horrible personality.
Anyway I didn't have change, thats too bad for the homeless that most people carry cards now a days, so I'm walking away and he starts belting out swear words at me, and a few f bombs.
Then I just thought what the fuck? People like that are reasons why you can justify that aggressive pan handling law.
Then the other day I run into him and he tries his story on me again but this time after he asked me if I was from around here I just said no.
And I was thinking the other day too, whos going to hire a homeless person? I mean even if they do where is the homeless person going to stay and shower etc...if someone has no family or friends how can they even find a job? I dont mind homeless people, but the aggressive kind that approach you with their bullshit stories need to be shot.
Okay, fine, there are different types of homeless people. Some are legitimately mentally ill, and are just cast aside by society because nobody gives a fuck what happens to them, and nobody cares. Some leave home because of stress. Some are there by choice, it's how they want to live. Some aren't there by choice, rather they just don't have the means to get a good enough job to rent a place to live.
My point is that you can't just lump all of them into one single category "homeless people" and then make generalizations about them. It might be true for some of them, but it's definitely not for others. Personally, I feel compassionate enough about it to help them out sometimes; buy a guy outside a gas-station a sandwich or something. If I have some small change, sure, I'll give it to them.
Hell, I treat them like Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact, I'd much rather have a homeless person approach me any day, cause they have much more interesting things to say. And just like any homeless person, if a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness gets aggressive with what they're trying to preach, I just tell them to fuck off. It doesn't change my perception about all Mormons, just that one asshole.
My philosophy is, if you can or want to help them, then help. If you can't or don't want to, then don't. Just don't pass judgment on them about how they need to live their lives.