Okay, this is going to sound out of character for me, and I'll probably regret it later, but do we really need to rag on this guy so much? Hell, I hate IVT as much as the next person. In fact, I probably hate him the most, out of everybody here (minus randomuser). However, this whole thread seemed like one blatant attempt at luring IVT out so you guys could bash his belief system. And yes, I've done it before too, but little by little. I just think this continual smackdown on him is getting a bit out of hand.
My point is, if he decides to inject his moral and religious beliefs into a thread, then fine, trash away. But look at the very first post in this thread....how could you not expect him to say something?
what do u guys expect? do u think that by pointing out flaws with certain religious beliefs that u will make the people realize how blind they are? if anything your just fortifying their belief in the said religion... and if someone has believed something to be true for 20odd years now I doubt w/e arguments you guys foster up will dent their belief since it’s so tightly knit into their foundation. I think u ppl made u point in just about every thread and we all get it now can u move on plz and stop beating the same old drum lol i’m tired of seeing the same religion bashing in so many threads now and I say that as an atheist lol
However, this whole thread seemed like one blatant attempt at luring IVT out so you guys could bash his belief system.
Honestly, no. I threw that crack in as an aside and didn't figure it would amount to much; I was seriously hoping for stories about seances and theories about the powers of "intuition." As for giving IVT shit, I don't really care. His beliefs are literally indefensible, as evidenced by the fact that he is totally powerless to defend them. The fact that he can't muster the beginnings of a response to any reasoned argument removes any qualms I would otherwise have.
If you can't even make a token attempt to defend your beliefs than I will take a shot at them whenever I damn well feel like it. Beliefs don't deserve respect just because someone believes them, especially ignorant and hateful ones like IVT's. I do start to feel bad sometimes, but then I remember that the guy not only hasn't the slightest idea why he believes what he does, but he doesn't care. He's content to go through life unquestioningly regurgitating his fractured scripture without giving a moment's thought to whether it's actually true. I think about that and then I don't feel bad. Because people who think like IVT are the reason they still kill teenage girls with rocks in Pakistan, and burn crosses in Alabama, and bulldoze houses in Gaza, and butcher albinos in Africa, and have committed genocide in Germany, in Russia, and in Darfur. People who do not question have held civilization back since the very beginning, and they show no signs of stopping. Fuck 'em.
Honestly, no. I threw that crack in as an aside and didn't figure it would amount to much; I was seriously hoping for stories about seances and theories about the powers of "intuition." As for giving IVT shit, I don't really care. His beliefs are literally indefensible, as evidenced by the fact that he is totally powerless to defend them. The fact that he can't muster the beginnings of a response to any reasoned argument removes any qualms I would otherwise have.
If you can't even make a token attempt to defend your beliefs than I will take a shot at them whenever I damn well feel like it. Beliefs don't deserve respect just because someone believes them, especially ignorant and hateful ones like IVT's. I do start to feel bad sometimes, but then I remember that the guy not only hasn't the slightest idea why he believes what he does, but he doesn't care.He's content to go through life unquestioningly regurgitating his fractured scripture without giving a moment's thought to whether it's actually true. I think about that and then I don't feel bad. Because people who think like IVT are the reason they still kill teenage girls with rocks in Pakistan, and burn crosses in Alabama, and bulldoze houses in Gaza, and butcher albinos in Africa, and have committed genocide in Germany, in Russia, and in Darfur. People who do not question have held civilization back since the very beginning, and they show no signs of stopping. Fuck 'em.
So let me ask you this. What is your end goal in arguing with IVT? You're saying "he's content to go through life....etc" as if it bothers you. Are you set on trying to change his life? Change the world, perhaps?
This is like telling a retarded person to stop being retarded. Or ask a retarded person why he's retarded. He can't tell you, he's fucking retarded! Hell, I'll make jokes about the bible-pushing assholes, but I'll never try to sway them my way. You know why? Because that's exactly what pisses me off about bible-pushers in the first place.
When someone legitimately wins his challenge, I'll look into it.
Phil
Thank you! Anyone who believes in paranormal phenomena of any kind should read through the SWIFT archives some.
As for this:
what do u guys expect? do u think that by pointing out flaws with certain religious beliefs that u will make the people realize how blind they are?
Not really, but there's only one way to find out. I also think that it's important that whatever we do we don't just let it slide because "aw hell, they'll just believe it anyway and nothing can change their mind." We need to make dogmatic belief socially unacceptable in the same way that racism and sexism are now. It's not going to happen overnight, but if the basic level of discourse was that you had to either justify your beliefs or fuck off we might make some progress in our lifetimes.
Not really, but there's only one way to find out. I also think that it's important that whatever we do we don't just let it slide because "aw hell, they'll just believe it anyway and nothing can change their mind." We need to make dogmatic belief socially unacceptable in the same way that racism and sexism are now. It's not going to happen overnight, but if the basic level of discourse was that you had to either justify your beliefs or fuck off we might make some progress in our lifetimes.
its funny how most athiests bitch about how some religious people try to convert them (they have every right to bitch)
then this guy comes along.
So why do you care that I'm a believer? Hmmm? What's it to you?
I don't recall complaining about prosyletizing on this board. I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes religion available for dialogue and scrutiny. Mind you, I'm not going to go door to door and I haven't heard of any atheist organization doing so, unlike the Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses. I also haven't heard of an atheist standing in the middle of a college campus wearing a big sign and shouting into a megaphone, another tactic pioneered by nice god fearing folks. Point being, what people complain about is how obnoxious and intrusive those tactics can be, not that the people want to get their message out.
I have an issue with prosyletizing because I feel that it's extremely self-serving and kind of creepy. Of all the ways you could try to convert someone, approaching them cold is one of the least efficient and least effective. If they seriously wanted to "save" as many people as possible they would be targeting their efforts more. As is, it's self gratification disguised as selflessness, something religion is extremely good at and which I find disgusting.
And now onto why what I am doing is different from the preachy religious folks you're talking about: I'm not saying that you should just adopt my beliefs without thinking and have blind faith in them because they might make you feel good. I'm asking you to justify what you already believe and suggesting that you take an uncompromising approach to the truth, no matter how pleasant or unpleasant it is. If you offer me sufficient evidence I will be singing hymns and praying my ass off in no time flat. That's where we differ. You want to hold onto your beliefs for their own sake; I believe in critical thinking and honest inquiry. My dogma is no dogma.
And "what's it to me?" As I said above, the kind of thinking that allows you to slavishly cling to your irrational belief is directly responsible for the greatest atrocities in human history, and remains the greatest threat to civilization and progress even now. Again, not your particular beliefs but the way you arrived at them.
Thank you! Anyone who believes in paranormal phenomena of any kind should read through the SWIFT archives some.
As for this:
Not really, but there's only one way to find out. I also think that it's important that whatever we do we don't just let it slide because "aw hell, they'll just believe it anyway and nothing can change their mind." We need to make dogmatic belief socially unacceptable in the same way that racism and sexism are now. It's not going to happen overnight, but if the basic level of discourse was that you had to either justify your beliefs or fuck off we might make some progress in our lifetimes.
I used to be super religious and conservative myself, until I was shown GIANT cracks in the logic, and then one day, just like that, I literally threw out my religious beliefs. It's really amazing how it works, how you can just discard them like that. I put two and two together, and realized it was four, not whatever god says.
Noone has to, or should respect religion, religion makes a universal claim that us non believers are going to hell. I dont know how many times I can repeat this. I have every right to attack any religious zealot anytime they bring up their beliefs, because it affects me.
I used to be super religious and conservative myself, until I was shown GIANT cracks in the logic, and then one day, just like that, I literally threw out my religious beliefs. It's really amazing how it works, how you can just discard them like that. I put two and two together, and realized it was four, not whatever god says.
Noone has to, or should respect religion, religion makes a universal claim that us non believers are going to hell. I dont know how many times I can repeat this. I have every right to attack any religious zealot anytime they bring up their beliefs, because it affects me.
Stories like this give me hope for the future of humanity. More like it here.
Also allow me to remind you that lazyGUY is a troll and not even a very good one. I am anxious to see how the great power rangers debate resolves. Maybe that should be the next big on-campus debate event...
Stories like this give me hope for the future of humanity. More like it here.
Also allow me to remind you that lazyGUY is a troll and not even a very good one. I am anxious to see how the great power rangers debate resolves. Maybe that should be the next big on-campus debate event...
lol ya ive been trolling these forums for a very long time
psst...randomuser, call him off, hes hurting my feelings :(
Well I'm just entertaining him, because whenever I make large posts he just says 'lol', and even throw in that 'uneducated' comment up there, but didn't say anything to substantiate it.
It's kind of like that whole appeal to the interests of the crowd thing?
At least I'm respectful enough of religious people to use logic when making claims. People try to make atheists out to be awful people, like they're trying to force their beliefs upon people.
The funny thing, atheism is the lack of religious beliefs.
When I go to europe I'm going to try and get into one of Richard Dawkins, or Christopher Hitchens lectures.
It's like that family guy episode when Brian meets the atheist in the bookstore, it was so funny and true.
Comments
And that is all.
lol.. are you in the midst of acquiring a harem of verbal assassinates randomuser? =P
My point is, if he decides to inject his moral and religious beliefs into a thread, then fine, trash away. But look at the very first post in this thread....how could you not expect him to say something?
If you can't even make a token attempt to defend your beliefs than I will take a shot at them whenever I damn well feel like it. Beliefs don't deserve respect just because someone believes them, especially ignorant and hateful ones like IVT's. I do start to feel bad sometimes, but then I remember that the guy not only hasn't the slightest idea why he believes what he does, but he doesn't care. He's content to go through life unquestioningly regurgitating his fractured scripture without giving a moment's thought to whether it's actually true. I think about that and then I don't feel bad. Because people who think like IVT are the reason they still kill teenage girls with rocks in Pakistan, and burn crosses in Alabama, and bulldoze houses in Gaza, and butcher albinos in Africa, and have committed genocide in Germany, in Russia, and in Darfur. People who do not question have held civilization back since the very beginning, and they show no signs of stopping. Fuck 'em.
This is like telling a retarded person to stop being retarded. Or ask a retarded person why he's retarded. He can't tell you, he's fucking retarded! Hell, I'll make jokes about the bible-pushing assholes, but I'll never try to sway them my way. You know why? Because that's exactly what pisses me off about bible-pushers in the first place.
http://www.randi.org/
When someone legitimately wins his challenge, I'll look into it.
Phil
As for this: Not really, but there's only one way to find out. I also think that it's important that whatever we do we don't just let it slide because "aw hell, they'll just believe it anyway and nothing can change their mind." We need to make dogmatic belief socially unacceptable in the same way that racism and sexism are now. It's not going to happen overnight, but if the basic level of discourse was that you had to either justify your beliefs or fuck off we might make some progress in our lifetimes.
then this guy comes along.
So why do you care that I'm a believer? Hmmm? What's it to you?
I have an issue with prosyletizing because I feel that it's extremely self-serving and kind of creepy. Of all the ways you could try to convert someone, approaching them cold is one of the least efficient and least effective. If they seriously wanted to "save" as many people as possible they would be targeting their efforts more. As is, it's self gratification disguised as selflessness, something religion is extremely good at and which I find disgusting.
And now onto why what I am doing is different from the preachy religious folks you're talking about: I'm not saying that you should just adopt my beliefs without thinking and have blind faith in them because they might make you feel good. I'm asking you to justify what you already believe and suggesting that you take an uncompromising approach to the truth, no matter how pleasant or unpleasant it is. If you offer me sufficient evidence I will be singing hymns and praying my ass off in no time flat. That's where we differ. You want to hold onto your beliefs for their own sake; I believe in critical thinking and honest inquiry. My dogma is no dogma.
And "what's it to me?" As I said above, the kind of thinking that allows you to slavishly cling to your irrational belief is directly responsible for the greatest atrocities in human history, and remains the greatest threat to civilization and progress even now. Again, not your particular beliefs but the way you arrived at them.
Noone has to, or should respect religion, religion makes a universal claim that us non believers are going to hell. I dont know how many times I can repeat this. I have every right to attack any religious zealot anytime they bring up their beliefs, because it affects me.
Why don't you and IVT go play power rangers, and concern yourselves with things of less importance.
PS your power range picture is missing the silver ranger.
its just frustrating trying to talk to someone so uneducated...ughhhh
Also allow me to remind you that lazyGUY is a troll and not even a very good one. I am anxious to see how the great power rangers debate resolves. Maybe that should be the next big on-campus debate event...
psst...randomuser, call him off, hes hurting my feelings :(
It's kind of like that whole appeal to the interests of the crowd thing?
At least I'm respectful enough of religious people to use logic when making claims. People try to make atheists out to be awful people, like they're trying to force their beliefs upon people.
The funny thing, atheism is the lack of religious beliefs.
When I go to europe I'm going to try and get into one of Richard Dawkins, or Christopher Hitchens lectures.
It's like that family guy episode when Brian meets the atheist in the bookstore, it was so funny and true.