And Primexx should really read whole posts. Socialist: accepting government fucking in ass IN EXCHANGE for government aids.
Meaning allowing government intervention, duh.
whether it's in exchange for something is irrelevant, a democratic government cannot dictate to people.
Lixie;42044 said:
Still, no one can really win a political argument here. It's like arguing about the Red Sox and the Yankees. It's either you have a boner for the Liberals and the NDP, or you have a boner for the Conservatives. We can all go at it as much as we want, but no one will be really satisfied unless the coalition actually happens OR Harper actually abuses his authority.
which has happened, numerous times already.
you loose a political argument by having nothing to back up your claims..that and contradicting yourself.
Lixie;42044 said:
Wrong. This "messed up" electoral system is one we've had for decades--explain to me why it's failing you now? OH RIGHT. Because you're pro-liberals!! Discounting our government and how it works just because the result didn't go your way doesn't make you educated--it makes you a sore loser.
ah but it's not just failing now, there's inequitable seat distribution all the time, this is just the first time (in recent history, that is) someone's actually tried to do something about it and gone this far.
Lixie;42044 said:
Wrong. Pooling your votes together just so you can get the majority votes to win is going against the people's votes. It's legal, but it's not right. Like Siuying said, this move would have been better if it wasn't so soon after the election--now it looks like a direct challenge to the voting result... which was not "messed up" and in this case, not a miscount.
again, go learn how our parliamentary system works before you spew bullshit like that. You never voted for who gets to form government, your vote decide how many seats each party gets in parliament.
Lixie;42044 said:
It's called minority government, meaning they won by minority, duh. And there has been no "voter choice" for as long as we've had this voting system. Again, this bothers you now?
by "there's no voter choice for any party to govern" i meant you don't choose who forms the government, and it doesn't bother me, even now, but it seems to bother you an awful lot.
Lixie;42044 said:
I'd like to hear you personally guarantee to the Canadian voters who voted for the NDP, or the Marxist Leninist (hello, ME), that once this coalition takes place, there will not be a grab for top seat amongst the coalition parties. Do you have enough credentials for that? Political opposition in all of Canadian history have been dominated by Conservatives and Liberals. What makes you think that the Liberals are going to "share" their right to govern with their teeny coalition parties after they actually get what they want? How silly and optimistic of you. So yes. Voters who DIDN'T vote for Liberals will automatically find their vote to be thrown for Liberals. It may not LOOK that way on paper, but that's how it would/could work.
the coalition agreement already gave the NDP 25% of the cabinet positions. I can't grantee that they won't try to contest the "better" seats, of course, but even you have to agree that it's better than no seats.
Lixie;42044 said:
This was in response to the coalition being wrong. Just because you're a left wing supporter, it doesn't make everything that they do right. I hope Dion and the Liberals smash out the coalition parties afterwards if they succeed in this coalition at all, just so they can prove for themselves what I had said, that politician are politicians.
and this supports your assertion, how?
Lixie;42044 said:
Please point out one ASSUMPTION I made about Canadian politics before this post. PLEASE.
you contradicted yourself by saying that harper is an idiot, and then going on to say that by virtue of being PM he has some kind of special credential. you also contradicted yourself (still in the same post) by telling me that my opinion didn't matter, all the while expressing your own opinion rather forcefully. The line that you quoted ("And yet, somebody who contradicts themself in the same post is fully qualified to tell others to shut up. ") made no mention whatsoever about assumptions.
Lixie;42044 said:
OOOOOOOH. So we need to BACK UP our assertions about politicians making bad decisions!!! NOW, WHAT WAS THAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT HARPER AND THE CONSERVATIVES?? And can YOU back them up with facts instead of OPINION PIECES WRITTEN BY LEFT WING SUPPORTERS? I wonder who is contradicting themselves.
facist dictatorship: C-10, C-42, C-51, C-52, C-60, C-61, ACTA, SPP, numerous minimum sentence impositions to CC offences, going after young offenders anti-democratic: undue election, strangling every other party to financial death, wiretapped opposition phone calls, suspending parliament
Canada was stunned Monday when it was announced that The Stanley Cup will be awarded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, possibly as early as December 6th. The cup will be stripped from from 2008 playoff champions the Detroit Red Wings and be awarded to the Leafs, who didn't even make the playoffs. How is this possible, Canadians ask? Well, the Leafs have formed a coalition with eastern conference semifinalists the Montreal Canadians, and conference quarter finalists the Ottawa Senators, now outnumbering the Red Wings. According to current Leaf coach Ron Wilson "the Red Wings have lost the confidence of the league and should hand the cup over immediately to our coalition". NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is cutting short a European trip to try to resolve the unprecedented hockey crisis that could force a second playoff series, or see an opposing team coalition take the cup.
Man I'll be honest, those guys are bunch of sore losers. Basically they lost the election cuz they suck, and they are now sending the message that hey, we didn't win but we're not gonna let you win either. This isn't how the election system is supposed to work, we might as well go to a 2 party system if the parties themselves don't care about their own ideologies
So pathetic man I don't any 3 of those guys are capable of leading a country. Harper sucks too but at least he knows how to win a godamm election...this is gonna look so bad internationally
A lot of you clearly have no idea how politics work.
Coalition governments exists in more democracies than Canada.
Coalition governments are more democratic because more of the population is being represented. Coalition governments are more open to compromise and fairness between the parties. Overall most people are being represented, how is this not democratic? In Canada you dont choose the prime minister or governing party like the United States.
I don't know why you're all ganging up on primexx, but what is happening has happened in other countries, and is democratic. Is it the new fad to be pro-right now?
Man I'll be honest, those guys are bunch of sore losers. Basically they lost the election cuz they suck, and they are now sending the message that hey, we didn't win but we're not gonna let you win either. This isn't how the election system is supposed to work, we might as well go to a 2 party system if the parties themselves don't care about their own ideologies
So pathetic man I don't any 3 of those guys are capable of leading a country. Harper sucks too but at least he knows how to win a godamm election...this is gonna look so bad internationally
Harper did not win an election in reference to Kevin M's point, he won the amount of seats in parliament that he won, and thats all it really is. This is how our system works
You can't cite your own source as a reference especially when it is full of your hippy ideologies, instead of the truth.
it's not a citation (nor a source), it's a summary of everything I've said so far so one doesn't have to read through the whole thread and piece things together.
As to your second claim, you're welcome to point to something - anything - which is incorrect.
You should also try something called "substantiating your claims", it helps people take you seriously sometimes.
A lot of you clearly have no idea how politics work.
Coalition governments exists in more democracies than Canada.
Coalition governments are more democratic because more of the population is being represented. Coalition governments are more open to compromise and fairness between the parties. Overall most people are being represented, how is this not democratic? In Canada you dont choose the prime minister or governing party like the United States.
I don't know why you're all ganging up on primexx, but what is happening has happened in other countries, and is democratic. Is it the new fad to be pro-right now?
"Just because other people are jumping off a bridge, does it mean you have to jump off a bridge?"
OH classic. And please read my post earlier. There's nothing democratic about three political parties banding together, signing a coalition that throws out all their previous platforms, undermining what they were voted into the parliament for in the first place. If you call that democratic, you should go back to Africa.
As for Primexx... people "gang up" on him because he's a douch (a popular vote). I'm not a rightie, on the political scale I lean slightly more towards the left, but even I think his arguments are hilariously misinformed. Think of him as Dion and the rest of us almost lefties as those folks in the Liberal party performing the facepalm right now. I don't even bother reading his posts anymore because it's basically useless arguing with someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about.
I think that's why they hardly get anything done in the government.... too full of people like Primexx.
I'm sorry but you're not even acknowledging any other points Lixie.
1)Stephen Harper is a douche for calling an early election that cost 300 million dollars, which he had previously promised not to 2)Stephen Harper is complaining that the other parties are being douches by being with the bloc, when he tried to make a coalition with then in 2004 3)As I mentioned, coaltion governments are a normal thing, do some research in other democratic countries using our system.
I guess that doesn't change your logic, that theyre being douches, but maybe all of the politicians are being douches, its not just the liberals, NDP, and the bloc.
And as I mentioned, coalition governents in west minster systems are not a rare occurance, just because it hasnt happened in Canada.
HAH. Which is what I TRIED to tell SOMEONE. But not everyone can grasp the concept.
Yeah. Rather than discussing politics, quit while you are ahead, better to shut your mouth than letting others know you are a fool (you as in plural, this is directed to everybody (including you Lixie)). For ideologies, there's no such thing as universal agreement and righteousness.
iVamp;42131 said:
I guess that doesn't change your logic, that theyre being douches, but maybe all of the politicians are being douches, its not just the liberals, NDP, and the bloc.
Politics is a dirty, dirty game. Most certainly not a very respectable occupation. What happens on parliament (and every other buildings of politics) day after day is similar to this thread, except times infinity.
Want to be taken credibly? Here's several good links to get you started. I can count several of these fallacies applicable in this thread alone. Rest assured, you will continue to make these fallacies throughout your life.
Please familiarize yourself with the following terms: ad hominem, non sequitor, red herring (under heading "Red Herring" of the wiki link), and strawman.
"Just because other people are jumping off a bridge, does it mean you have to jump off a bridge?"
OH classic. And please read my post earlier. There's nothing democratic about three political parties banding together, signing a coalition that throws out all their previous platforms, undermining what they were voted into the parliament for in the first place. If you call that democratic, you should go back to Africa.
As for Primexx... people "gang up" on him because he's a douch (a popular vote). I'm not a rightie, on the political scale I lean slightly more towards the left, but even I think his arguments are hilariously misinformed. Think of him as Dion and the rest of us almost lefties as those folks in the Liberal party performing the facepalm right now. I don't even bother reading his posts anymore because it's basically useless arguing with someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about.
I think that's why they hardly get anything done in the government.... too full of people like Primexx.
You've been given more than enough information to learn how the system works, and yet you're repeating the same unsubstantiated bullshit you've been saying all along. If you're so determined to remain ignorant then I'm done with our conversation.
Comments
you loose a political argument by having nothing to back up your claims..that and contradicting yourself. ah but it's not just failing now, there's inequitable seat distribution all the time, this is just the first time (in recent history, that is) someone's actually tried to do something about it and gone this far. again, go learn how our parliamentary system works before you spew bullshit like that. You never voted for who gets to form government, your vote decide how many seats each party gets in parliament. by "there's no voter choice for any party to govern" i meant you don't choose who forms the government, and it doesn't bother me, even now, but it seems to bother you an awful lot. the coalition agreement already gave the NDP 25% of the cabinet positions. I can't grantee that they won't try to contest the "better" seats, of course, but even you have to agree that it's better than no seats.and this supports your assertion, how?you contradicted yourself by saying that harper is an idiot, and then going on to say that by virtue of being PM he has some kind of special credential. you also contradicted yourself (still in the same post) by telling me that my opinion didn't matter, all the while expressing your own opinion rather forcefully. The line that you quoted ("And yet, somebody who contradicts themself in the same post is fully qualified to tell others to shut up. ") made no mention whatsoever about assumptions. facist dictatorship: C-10, C-42, C-51, C-52, C-60, C-61, ACTA, SPP, numerous minimum sentence impositions to CC offences, going after young offenders
anti-democratic: undue election, strangling every other party to financial death, wiretapped opposition phone calls, suspending parliament
your turn.
current Westminster system
OR
proportional representation of some kind
??
but i don't see that happening
So pathetic man I don't any 3 of those guys are capable of leading a country. Harper sucks too but at least he knows how to win a godamm election...this is gonna look so bad internationally
Coalition governments exists in more democracies than Canada.
Coalition governments are more democratic because more of the population is being represented. Coalition governments are more open to compromise and fairness between the parties. Overall most people are being represented, how is this not democratic? In Canada you dont choose the prime minister or governing party like the United States.
I don't know why you're all ganging up on primexx, but what is happening has happened in other countries, and is democratic. Is it the new fad to be pro-right now?
http://www.chycho.com/?q=node/1916 (this was even previously posted in this thread)
http://www.yarnharlot.ca/blog/archives/2008/12/03/what_is_happening_in_canada.html
http://cshen.net/?p=67 (easier to read version of what I've been saying)
As to your second claim, you're welcome to point to something - anything - which is incorrect.
You should also try something called "substantiating your claims", it helps people take you seriously sometimes.
"Just because other people are jumping off a bridge, does it mean you have to jump off a bridge?"
OH classic. And please read my post earlier. There's nothing democratic about three political parties banding together, signing a coalition that throws out all their previous platforms, undermining what they were voted into the parliament for in the first place. If you call that democratic, you should go back to Africa.
As for Primexx... people "gang up" on him because he's a douch (a popular vote). I'm not a rightie, on the political scale I lean slightly more towards the left, but even I think his arguments are hilariously misinformed. Think of him as Dion and the rest of us almost lefties as those folks in the Liberal party performing the facepalm right now. I don't even bother reading his posts anymore because it's basically useless arguing with someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about.
I think that's why they hardly get anything done in the government.... too full of people like Primexx.
W.E. Arguing politics and religion is beating dead horses, all you end up with is ad hominem.
Damn, there is a lot of lefties here.
1)Stephen Harper is a douche for calling an early election that cost 300 million dollars, which he had previously promised not to
2)Stephen Harper is complaining that the other parties are being douches by being with the bloc, when he tried to make a coalition with then in 2004
3)As I mentioned, coaltion governments are a normal thing, do some research in other democratic countries using our system.
I guess that doesn't change your logic, that theyre being douches, but maybe all of the politicians are being douches, its not just the liberals, NDP, and the bloc.
And as I mentioned, coalition governents in west minster systems are not a rare occurance, just because it hasnt happened in Canada.
Want to be taken credibly? Here's several good links to get you started. I can count several of these fallacies applicable in this thread alone. Rest assured, you will continue to make these fallacies throughout your life.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html
http://leo.stcloudstate.edu/acadwrite/logic.html (this one is really easy to understand with very good examples, although it lacks the latin terminology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Please familiarize yourself with the following terms: ad hominem, non sequitor, red herring (under heading "Red Herring" of the wiki link), and strawman.