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Gangland warfare
What do you guys think about all the shootings happening recently? Do you guys think its right for the cops to protect the source of all the violence?
I know some of you are gonna say "let em kill each other", but you gotta think of the innocent ppl involved. Yesterday a lady got shot in her suv, with her 4 year old kid in the backseat. She died and the suv kept on going...luckily the kid was alright.
I know some of you are gonna say "let em kill each other", but you gotta think of the innocent ppl involved. Yesterday a lady got shot in her suv, with her 4 year old kid in the backseat. She died and the suv kept on going...luckily the kid was alright.
Comments
Even if she was involved what about the kid?
I'd say vigilant justice. If police aren't doing enough towards these sentencing and gangs, I'd say we hire Blackwater and start doing raids.
Today its being said that it could be gang related, mistaken identity, or domestic issue
Regardless the case, of all the gang shootings so far --however brazen and with reckless disregard for bystanders-- no one deemed innocent has been killed yet, and this is the 11th shooting in 15 days including the one today in Vancouver. Seems like the gangs know who they're going after doesn't it?
If you want to make the point that her kid is innocent, well sure he is. And I'm not saying its not traumatizing or that it doesnt suck that he had to sit through it, but if his mother was (god forbid) the target of the shooting, then how do you propose we protect every offspring of gang-related parents?
i guess thats why the cops are keeping a close eye on the bacon bros
but yeah.. my take on it is the still the same.. let them kill each other.. in fact if they can manage.. let them kill off themselves.. the world is better without them... and if innocent people die.. well they just got unlucky.. shit happens everyday and all the time.. if you want to think less apathetically.. just think of them as making way for others that come into this world... people die off and people are brought into this world.. ultimately.. everyone will eventually be replaced...
its a big mixup between the red scorpions, united nations, and the bacon brothers.
the bacon brothers came in hard, killing a lot of ppl and taking a lot of territory, the other gang got angry and we got the war thats happening right now.
the bacon brothers are pretty much done now tho, all the ppl getting killed are affiliated with them apparently
they also have a hit on there heads from what ive seen in the news and the police are protecting them, a marked car stands in front of their house 24/7..
im not sure if this is all true, anyone know anything else?
I disagree with the idea of letting them kill each other off because this will just perpetrate the conflict and they can never be killed off. Instead, I purpose a MASS INCREASE in RCMP and VPD presence in Surrey. They will supported by surveillance cameras on every street corners and armed with the best arms and armors the RCMP and VPD can afford. We also need to have much harsher punishments. At the same time, we need to invest in researching why there is a gang problem in the Lower Mainland and address the issues. Well, we should definitely request more police presence near SFU Surrey if the gang wars manage to spread to areas close to SFU Surrey. Regarding Blackwater, SFU can't afford it.
also our laws do not really allow for vigilantism, as far as i know. like if someone was to break into your home and you shot him with a shotgun in defense of your home, properpty and family. you'd still hit the shits for shooting the guy. although i'm sure that if it came down to your life or his, pulling the trigger becomes more justified.
also blackwater is kinda expensive, i say we re-route soldiers out of afghanistan and they can come sweep the streets building to building. heck the vancouver pd ERT squad could probably do it better then blackwater. :smile: @lazy: the bacon brothers are kept under a close eye but people still die day in and day out. so obviously theres something not working with that. infact the police constantly monitoring the bacon brothers is probably a plus for them. anyone trying to put a hit on them will have to deal with local rcmp first. @siuying: i really hope someone does a drive by shooting near you and they completely miss you. HOWEVER, i hope it startles you so your sunglasses fall of your face and you accidently step on them :p also i hope whatever expensive bag your carrying gets riddled with bullets ;) also i hope you break a heal on one of your shoes when you step on your sunglasses. MUHAHAHAHAH! :smile: @lazy: its funny how UN gang, red scorpions and bacon brothers are out killing each other... while the chinese and viets are quietly making money :smile: @student: what you are proposing is essentially the rise of a police state. mass numbers of police for "our" protection. cctv cameras on every street corner monitoring us for "our" protection. sounds like whats happening over in the UK to me. heck they even arrest people who post pictures on facebook if they are holding "weapons" which incude bb guns. lol what a joke. also, increasing police officer numbers doesnt necessarily fix the problem. the response time in richmond is horrible and we have plenty of rcmp officers. i called rcmp to tell them that my neighbors house alarm was going off and it took the rcmp TWO hours to get there. he tried to peak through the windows and looked over the fence then got in his car and drove off. wow. good stuff.
giving the rcmp and vpd as well as new west sherrifs department and delta pd more guns and better equipment wont solve anything. they have some of the best equipment available already, smith n wesson 5946 which fires 9mm luger parabelum rounds. the 9mm's are hollow points to prevent a through and through. they are backed up with a remington 12 gauge shotgun as well as a hnk mp5 with selective fire for burst, single and full auto. the ERT squad is given sig sauers in two flavors, .45 and .40, both plenty powerful to take down people regardless of size.
do you propose we give them M1911's with .45ACP? maybe we should refit the entire rcmp squad with .357's so they can feel badass then they draw their gun on some guy walkin down the street.
@OT: we can only hope for the best. all i know is that things will get alot worse before it gets better. someone innocent WILL die. just a matter of time. however there is hope that things will pick up and get better as time goes on. i'm hoping that some of the laws in canada will change so that everyday people will be able to defend themselves without fearing any persecution.
sidenote: cts drives like shit, too much unnecessary power that cant be harnessed
As for the bacon bros being under surveillance, its bullshit.
The obvious flaw is that they are still able to communicate with the soldiers, making these shootings happen. Its also pretty stupid that there being offered protection while they're the root cause of all this. Another thing...why are they not in jail anyways? All 3 of them have multiple gun charges. This just proves the justice system need reform, its no wonder why gangs prosper here in BC.
gun charges do not necessitate jail time. most of the time you can get off with a fine.
communication with "soldiers" is obvious but i also think there is another high ranking guy whose close with the bacons who is not yet known to police or is being over looked by them.
The oldest was found not guilty on trafficking and several gun charges, while the other 2 still have their freedom on a total of 27 gun charges. I highly doubt they would get shanked though...this is Canada lol. One of them already spent a stretch in jail and came out fine. They probably have a network of guys in there anyways.
but seriously, I doubt they rely much on weed for profits. Hardcore drugs and weapons are a much more lucrative trade. Kids in high school do the smalltime stuff like weed.
Look, I am not trying to say that the CCTV will reduce crime to 0%, however I belief that their presence will at least deter crime. You were talking about how crime boss were still able communicate with their men. Well, having CCTV and tapping their phone calls may answer some of those questions.
Also, a few of these recent killing took place in broad daylight. Having a cop patrol in every street corner will probably put a halt to this at best, catch or killing the guy who it did immediately at worst.
From a documentary that I watched on Egypt, the documentary said that there are secret police in every street corner in Cario listening in on your conversation and uniformed police ready to break up any possible problems. You know what, whenever they are around (huge presence) AND they give a shit of what they are doing (training and dedication), they are doing a great job keeping law and order. I often see secret police as a more archaic form of CCTV. If we have CCTV positioned across Surrey and beyond, supported by a well trained and alerted police force, I think it will help in reducing crime and violence.
I hate to say this, but it will illustrate my point...
When Saddam was still in power in Iraq, he was able to supress all these Sunni/ Shia/ Kurd infighting that plagued Iraq today because Saddam installed a well functioned and efficient police and internal intelligence force in Iraq. When the Americans came in and liberated the Iraqis, the Americans removed the safety valve that is the Baath Party and the Sunni/ Shia/ Kurd are now free to fight with one another for a piece of Iraq. This illustrate the point that a well functioning police force and intelligence apparatus can indeed supress violence, even in a place as fractional as Iraq. I have enormous respect for the British because I always regarded them as the mother country. However, I feel somewhat embarrassed for the British for their over sensitivity and political correctness. To put it bluntly, they are using their new resources very irresponsibility.
Regarding the issues with arms and armor, as long as we are giving our police forces the necessary equipment to do their job well and possibly better, I am happy. I won't be too happy if they are armed with only a billy club like the British did back then.
-Two gunmen enter the wrong house by mistake
-There are two residents inside
-One of them takes one of the guns and kills one of the intruders
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/dead+after+gunmen+burst+into+Vancouver+home/1299198/story.html
On that note, where do you think you'll move them to? BC do not have legislative rights to amend Federal legislation (which I am pretty certain legalizing marijuana falls under) So any legalization will have to be done at a federal level, therefore all of Canada. Over simplistic. You need to have specific reasonable grounds to get warrants for wiretaps. This was a whole section in itself in one of the procedure classes that I've long since forgotten. Basically, its not easy to obtain, and if done in a manner that is against the Charter, the evidence obtained is not admissible in court.
On CCTV, having them installed in the first place will be a challenge. You'll be faced with MASSIVE amounts of complaints from citizens. There was a slight debate on the CCTV that was mounted in the crim main office as is. And thats one lousy camera at a not so famous university. Nothing stopping them from killing the cop right? Look this is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure Egypt can hardly be considered a first world country. Draw logical comparisons please.
I mean arguing your point better, why dont you use China and their minuscule crime rate in comparison?
Also, by giving extreme power to the state, how do you prevent corruption? Lets face it, theres numerous cases of police using excessive force, and the such. Your solution is to give them more power and point to Egypt to argue your point? I dont know the situation in Iraq, but I'm going to go ahead and say human rights and the bit. Beats me, dunno shit about this
if you think having more cops is going to fix the problem you're fucking naive about how the world goes around.
having a cop on every street will NOT fix everything. theres been plenty of fights in richmond where a lonely police cruiser drove up at the end of the street and watch while some dude was getting his head crushed in with a baseball bat. there was also a huge fight over at garry point and one cop showed up and sat in his squad car taking notes while some girls screamed frantically at him to do something. my friend was sitting inside the buck, got into a fight outside and had to get his head stapled back together. cops suggested that he doesnt press charges as the guys are known gangster and that he may suffer consquences. WOW great fuckin system.
like the relationship thread, do you have any experience in this? know any gangsters? ever had to deal with cops? got into fights? ever had a weapon pulled on you?
again you say CCTV positioned around the lowermainland will help solve the problem. its not. its peoples indifference to situations which is causing the problem. every night people turn on the news and see whats happening in abbotsford and langley and surrey. and they go, oh dear, thank god its not in our city. and they flip the channel or loose interest in the next story about some lady and a jack russell that climbs trees.
the only thing i can agree with you is the saddam thing. however the only reason sadams plan worked is because he rules with a military dictatorship. i dont want to give up my rights and civil liberties for peace. because again, the ends do not justify the means.
over sensitivity? in Britain? wow. news flash, you know what teens like to do in merry ol england? go around happy slapping people. they also record it and put it online on places like youtube and metacafe. "the mother country" wow, you definetly have to be from HK for that kinda shit. canada was founded by both the french AND the british remember? :smile: history majors ftw :P
also british are STILL not allowed to carry pistols on patrol, same thing with korea. in the old days cops in korea used to kick the shit out of you, bare knuckles and everything. then drag your ass off to jail. now adays they're too concerned about "criminals" civil rights. what a joke.
your assumption that government intervention through the taking away of personal civil liberties and rights such as peoples privacy is disgusting.
There has been a huge increase over the recent years in hiring more police as is - especially in Vancouver where they are hiring in preparation for 2010. The number of police officers, however short staffed they might want you to think, is what we have at the moment. Why? Funding of course. (Which also quashes your CCTV argument student. Have you seen the surveillance footage captured on your cheap CCTVs? How will that be useful if you cant ID the person responsible? Get good cameras you say? For every fucking corner in Surrey? Hello World Bank?)
Also, think of this as a possibility:
Would the quality of your police officers be held at a comparatively high standard as say, the current level (shouldn't be hard to uphold, but you'd be surprised) if there is a massive number of new recruits?
why do people go to criminal lifestyles? boredom? lack of good jobs? cost of education?
But on this note, suppose you have to pick a side (as the police officer patrolling one of our corners) between oh, the girl you have a huge crush on, and some random smelly hobo, in a heated argument - can you be unbiased even if the girl is clearly in the wrong and the hobo is obviously right?
And suppose we say you can, how about one of the massive number of recruits we'd need to have hire to man every street corner?
Lastly, let me leave you with this:
First year VPD Constables make around mid 40k without overtime pay a year, and it rises within 5years to 75k I believe. How many officers can Vancouver afford to hire?
and i'm not just saying that cause i'm the president of the randomuser fanclub. :D
Also keep in mind, Surrey has 4 times (at my last check) the population of Vancouver. Of course naturally theres going to be more crimes in terms of sheer number. If you can find a legitimate crime rate statistic that shows Surrey is a hell hole in say - violent crimes, then great, trash Surrey.
If not, aren't you just demonstrating how you're biased (something one of your perfect cops will not do right?) against Surrey despite having limited exposure to Surrey.