student.. do you honestly think increasing police forces will help the cause? your thought process automatically defines the police to be the good guys.. people who would stand up for injustice.. when in reality the relationship between gangs and police forces is much more complicated than that... police and gangs don't have to be on opposite sides.. and i'm telling you.. they aren't on opposite sides..
i'm not going to go into the details of the politics at play here... but perhaps someone here would be patient enough to explain it to you.. =)
how about instead of increasing police forces, as an ad hoc solution to crime, we try to prevent crime through social change
why do people go to criminal lifestyles? boredom? lack of good jobs? cost of education?
The quick answer to this is that the criminal lifestyle is lucrative and easy. It doesn't take nearly as long as to get an education, it's relatively unskilled so anyone can do it (unlike say, an open heart surgeon) and well, $$$$
It's like gambling I guess.
btw, take a class with Bouchard if you get a chance to
The quick answer to this is that the criminal lifestyle is lucrative and easy. It doesn't take nearly as long as to get an education, it's relatively unskilled so anyone can do it (unlike say, an open heart surgeon) and well, $$$$
It's like gambling I guess.
btw, take a class with Bouchard if you get a chance to
our society promotes it.
gangster rap, riches and fame. getting to drive 200k cars around and living in a fancy mansion with a bunches bitches and drugs. and its relatively easy if you've got enough connections and got the balls to do it. question is, just how far are you willing to go to get it all?
all gotta end somewhere though.. there was that dai lo who owed a multi-million dollar mansion on the british properties who got killed on his front lawn. shot to death.
and about legalizing marijuana. i think that our tolerance of it as a "minor" drug is whats contributing to the problem. you get caught with weed and the risks are low. you get a slap on the wrists a confiscation and maybe a fine, MAYBE.
how about instead of increasing police forces, as an ad hoc solution to crime, we try to prevent crime through social change
why do people go to criminal lifestyles? boredom? lack of good jobs? cost of education?
i dont think anyone know the answer to that...I mean its obviously more common for a gang member to have been raised in a "ghetto environment" but theres a lot of exceptions.
One of my good friends in high school had a perfectly good life, but got in with the wrong crowd and thinks he's a gangster now. Why would you leave a perfectly good life? His parents paid for him to get through school, he had everything going for him, but he chose to start dealing. His group of friends are equally moronic as they have the exact same life story.
The funny thing is they actually think they're in the "big times" now, and go around fucking around with whoever, only cuz one of them is actually related to the guy that basically runs the drug game in Surrey. Pathetic...
Gangs thrive on poverty. The only way to really get rid of them is to build a healthier community; it takes a long time but it's also the only long term solution. More police will help, but you probably don't want Blackwater anywhere near you. Incidentally, they're now no longer known as Blackwater since that name became synonymous with torture, rape, and indiscriminate killing. They are now known by the friendly and not at all comic-book-style-evil-corporation-like name "Xe" (pronounced "zee").
In any case, boots on the ground are good, but improving things like education and industry in the area will make sure the problem stays gone once it's gone. "Just kill 'em all" would be a fine policy if we could really do it, but we can't. It's also hard to undermine them financially. You can crack down on drugs, but you mostly end up punishing users and there are too many of those for that to matter very much. Cracking down on prostitution is also no good, because for the most part you're punishing sex workers who were likely coerced or forced into the trade. I would like to see harsher penalties for pimps and recruiters though. Maybe a ten year minimum or so.
Point being, the larger problem in BC appears to be poverty. If you can address that, you'll be much closer to eliminating the gang presence and all the associated problems. Obviously they'll never completely go away. But until people get serious about this beyond the completely apathetic government and well meaning if utterly counterproductive APC the best you can expect is a series of stopgap solutions.
the thing with poverty is that it will always exist in a capitalist society the rich are gunna stay rich, the poor will stay poor
and i disagree about poverty being the primary factor leading to a gangster lifestyle, theres no real ghettos in BC like compton or east oakland where one of the few options is to choose that particular lifestyle
The quick answer to this is that the criminal lifestyle is lucrative and easy. It doesn't take nearly as long as to get an education, it's relatively unskilled so anyone can do it (unlike say, an open heart surgeon) and well, $$$$
It's like gambling I guess.
btw, take a class with Bouchard if you get a chance to
its on a balance of a scale you could hypothesize, if education, or training to other jobs was easy they could be in that
if entry to other jobs that paid high was easy they could do that
i know thats all easier said than done but look at the money we waste shit on in north america
also, i take every class i can with bouchard, im in love with him
I too was going to rip into student's post on the 2nd page, but hiking did a good job more or less. So I'll start there:
Legalizing marijuana will not solve anything. Given the lavish lifestyles they're used to, you think they'll just go and get a job? Odds are, they'll fight over the other illegal drug market, namely the smaller cocaine and heroin market. What do you think the original sellers there will do, just roll over and let them take that market? (please bear in mind, by market and sellers, I mean at a wholesale level where the gang operates, not the street vending level)
Yes, they will move to other markets. But the resources that would otherwise be use for marijuana busts can be diverted.
On that note, where do you think you'll move them to? BC do not have legislative rights to amend Federal legislation (which I am pretty certain legalizing marijuana falls under) So any legalization will have to be done at a federal level, therefore all of Canada.
As of now, there aren't any federal legislation in regards to marijuana. You're right, it has to be amended at a federal level, but as of now, we only have regulations that are imposed. And that can be struck down and deemed unconstitutional. Parts of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act were struck down by a BC judge a couple years ago. Although it only deals with possession of marijuana for medical use, it certainly is a start to end prohibition.
Gangs thrive on poverty. The only way to really get rid of them is to build a healthier community; it takes a long time but it's also the only long term solution. More police will help, but you probably don't want Blackwater anywhere near you. Incidentally, they're now no longer known as Blackwater since that name became synonymous with torture, rape, and indiscriminate killing. They are now known by the friendly and not at all comic-book-style-evil-corporation-like name "Xe" (pronounced "zee").
There's no "straight-line" relation between poverty and gangs. Gangs thrive in suburbans areas of LA as well. Cultural and social disorganization, and racism apparently ties into gangs in some way.
Anybody that's aware of Blackwater's criminal track records probably would still refer Xe as Blackwater anyways.
Strip off the demand of illegal substance, by whatever means necessary, is less expensive compared to enforcing the supply.
You can't get rich off illegal substances when there are no one to buy them.
The nature of non-legit business is very anarchistic, there's no rule of law enforcing fair competition. You kill your competitors because you can't eliminate them in a fair free market way.
like the relationship thread, do you have any experience in this? know any gangsters? ever had to deal with cops? got into fights? ever had a weapon pulled on you?
Fortunately, no. But then again, why should this stop me from discussing about possible solutions to the Lower Mainland's gang problem? While I have not talked to any Crim Profs, but I am pretty sure most of them have not gotten into fights and having guns pulled on them.
over sensitivity? in Britain? wow. news flash, you know what teens like to do in merry ol england? go around happy slapping people. they also record it and put it online on places like youtube and metacafe.
I was refering to the British who are in leadership position, not the kids. From a documentary I watched on the British firearm ban, the British now look at our (ie the US) freedom and liberty with jealousy and hope that the Americans won't let their elected officials take their guns away like the British officials did. There are also growing oppositions within British society regarding all the new arms regulations put in place.
The British leaderships are trying too hard to please everyone and in turn endangered the civil liberty of its citizens. Did you know that some British teachers stopped teaching the Holocaust because they are worry that they will offend their Muslim students...
randomuser;48423 said:
how about instead of increasing police forces, as an ad hoc solution to crime, we try to prevent crime through social change
why do people go to criminal lifestyles? boredom? lack of good jobs? cost of education?
Thankyou.
hikin;48430 said:
our society promotes it.
I would go for stricter regulation of illicit materials that glorified things such as "gangster rap, riches and fame. getting to drive 200k cars around and living in a fancy mansion with a bunches bitches and drugs." But hey, this is not the People's Republic of China. Besides, other than the "Gangster rap" and "bunch of bitches and drugs" part, people should aspire toward wealth and prosperity.
If you guys hated my "police state and surge in police presence" idea so much, we can go for Randomuser's reduce crime through social change policy. We just need to figure out how to get people to treat that seriously.
JayDub;48446 said:
See a lot of these problems are coming from slurrey.
If people had just listened to me in the first place and avoided slurrey, we wouldn't have these problems.
It is kind of hard to avoid Surrey if we have a campus at the dead center of Surrey.
By the way, I was just at Surrey yesterday and the place seems ok. I am not the one talking trash about Surrey, I learned all my stuff about Surrey from JayDub.
The only time I went to slurrey, I saw like 9 bums at the bottom of the staircase, and if you include me in those statistics, 90% of all people at any given time in slurrey are hobos who want to mug, stab and rape you.
STAT-270 in action right there. You can't argue with that flawless stat.
Strip off the demand of illegal substance, by whatever means necessary, is less expensive compared to enforcing the supply.
You can't get rich off illegal substances when there are no one to buy them.
The nature of non-legit business is very anarchistic, there's no rule of law enforcing fair competition. You kill your competitors because you can't eliminate them in a fair free market way.
not going to happen because it takes balls and personal responsibility
Comments
i'm not going to go into the details of the politics at play here... but perhaps someone here would be patient enough to explain it to you.. =)
It's like gambling I guess.
btw, take a class with Bouchard if you get a chance to
gangster rap, riches and fame. getting to drive 200k cars around and living in a fancy mansion with a bunches bitches and drugs. and its relatively easy if you've got enough connections and got the balls to do it. question is, just how far are you willing to go to get it all?
all gotta end somewhere though.. there was that dai lo who owed a multi-million dollar mansion on the british properties who got killed on his front lawn. shot to death.
and about legalizing marijuana. i think that our tolerance of it as a "minor" drug is whats contributing to the problem. you get caught with weed and the risks are low. you get a slap on the wrists a confiscation and maybe a fine, MAYBE.
One of my good friends in high school had a perfectly good life, but got in with the wrong crowd and thinks he's a gangster now. Why would you leave a perfectly good life? His parents paid for him to get through school, he had everything going for him, but he chose to start dealing. His group of friends are equally moronic as they have the exact same life story.
The funny thing is they actually think they're in the "big times" now, and go around fucking around with whoever, only cuz one of them is actually related to the guy that basically runs the drug game in Surrey.
Pathetic...
In any case, boots on the ground are good, but improving things like education and industry in the area will make sure the problem stays gone once it's gone. "Just kill 'em all" would be a fine policy if we could really do it, but we can't. It's also hard to undermine them financially. You can crack down on drugs, but you mostly end up punishing users and there are too many of those for that to matter very much. Cracking down on prostitution is also no good, because for the most part you're punishing sex workers who were likely coerced or forced into the trade. I would like to see harsher penalties for pimps and recruiters though. Maybe a ten year minimum or so.
Point being, the larger problem in BC appears to be poverty. If you can address that, you'll be much closer to eliminating the gang presence and all the associated problems. Obviously they'll never completely go away. But until people get serious about this beyond the completely apathetic government and well meaning if utterly counterproductive APC the best you can expect is a series of stopgap solutions.
imho
the rich are gunna stay rich, the poor will stay poor
and i disagree about poverty being the primary factor leading to a gangster lifestyle, theres no real ghettos in BC like compton or east oakland where one of the few options is to choose that particular lifestyle
i would choose idiocy over povetry anytime
if entry to other jobs that paid high was easy they could do that
i know thats all easier said than done but look at the money we waste shit on in north america
also, i take every class i can with bouchard, im in love with him
There's no "straight-line" relation between poverty and gangs. Gangs thrive in suburbans areas of LA as well. Cultural and social disorganization, and racism apparently ties into gangs in some way.
Anybody that's aware of Blackwater's criminal track records probably would still refer Xe as Blackwater anyways.
You can't get rich off illegal substances when there are no one to buy them.
The nature of non-legit business is very anarchistic, there's no rule of law enforcing fair competition. You kill your competitors because you can't eliminate them in a fair free market way.
If people had just listened to me in the first place and avoided slurrey, we wouldn't have these problems.
The British leaderships are trying too hard to please everyone and in turn endangered the civil liberty of its citizens. Did you know that some British teachers stopped teaching the Holocaust because they are worry that they will offend their Muslim students... Thankyou. I would go for stricter regulation of illicit materials that glorified things such as "gangster rap, riches and fame. getting to drive 200k cars around and living in a fancy mansion with a bunches bitches and drugs." But hey, this is not the People's Republic of China. Besides, other than the "Gangster rap" and "bunch of bitches and drugs" part, people should aspire toward wealth and prosperity.
If you guys hated my "police state and surge in police presence" idea so much, we can go for Randomuser's reduce crime through social change policy. We just need to figure out how to get people to treat that seriously. It is kind of hard to avoid Surrey if we have a campus at the dead center of Surrey.
By the way, I was just at Surrey yesterday and the place seems ok. I am not the one talking trash about Surrey, I learned all my stuff about Surrey from JayDub.
STAT-270 in action right there. You can't argue with that flawless stat.