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Tibet Vs China

edited April 2008 in General
So I was watching the news yesterday and there were like two protests, China says Tibet is trying to ruin their olympics and that the western media is only showing one side of the story.

I'm just curious does anyone know any possible reasons why [b][u]Tibet would have some vendetta against such a big powerful country such as China[u][b]

Just taking bias into account form western media, and assuming neither side is to blame, what possible reason and under what logic would Tibet have in threatening China other than it's own destruction?

Comments

  • edited March 2008
    I heard this from the news:

    China is encouraging Chinese to move and live in Tibet. Currently, there the number of Chinese in Tibet outnumber the native Tibetans. Well, the Dalai Lama is saying this it's cultural genocide, etc etc.

    This article is related: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/tibet.unrest/

    What i dont get is...the Dalai Lama says he doesnt want Tibet to separate from China, but it seems to me..tahts what they really want. He also says China treats them as second-class citizens in their own land. So...wouldnt the simplest solution for China to just kiss and make up?
  • edited March 2008
    nuke em both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!














    is what a red neck would say
  • edited March 2008
    tibetans are getting all hyped up because yes as ooeygooey said they encouraging Chinese people to move into Tibet.. because Tibet has their own distinct practices and culture for hundreds of years.. this sudden movement of "implied assimilation" as you will it.. is seen to be something that's threatening their cultural survival.. and to that.. their spiritual leader Dalai Lama had decided to add a few words to further stir the pot.. then escape to India when the riots became overwhelming..

    but as far as i know... Tibetans are pretty much in the same boat as the First Nations here.. and if not better... the China government pays all for their tuitions if they decide to pursue education and subsidizes living expenses for the poor and those who study to become a monk... so I really don't see why they should get so angry when they've been on the receiving end for so long... and that cultural genocide speech is bs... nearly every culture experiences an infiltration or fusion from other cultures.. it's not and does not kill essentially kill the culture per se.. what kills a culture is when people fail to preserve their origins... and that responsibility shouldn't be burdened onto others when the people themselves aren't putting in effort to protect their own culture..
  • edited March 2008
    wikipedia's article helps with the background info, basically they used to be highly autonomous, but its neighbours (which was not granted autonomy) got pissed that china was redistributing their land, and started stirring up trouble. It eventually spread to tibet, so the chinese gov sent in troops and pwned them, while the dalai lama escaped to india. after that china exerted much more control over the area, which pissed off quite some people, that and china's human rights record (or lack thereof) eventually led to this riot.

    the dalai lama insists that he only wants autonomy within china, but the people who are rioting in tibet aren't exactly listening to what their religious leader is saying, and just doing their own thing over there.
  • edited March 2008
    This whole conflict basically revolves around religion culture. How does Chinese ppl moving into Tibet cause cultural genocide? If ppl living in Tibet are so concerned about being phased out, don't adopt chinese culture. All they have to do to prevent this is not create chinese/tibet hybrid babies and the world will be at peace. Honestly the dalai lama is just a drama queen..lol i mean no offence by that too ppl who follow him i guess.
  • edited March 2008
    lazyGUY;25598 said:
    This whole conflict basically revolves around religion culture. How does Chinese ppl moving into Tibet cause cultural genocide? If ppl living in Tibet are so concerned about being phased out, don't adopt chinese culture. All they have to do to prevent this is not create chinese/tibet hybrid babies and the world will be at peace.
    Wow. It's easier said than done...you can't just NOT adopt a culture that is predominant where you live. It's not just the ppl in Tibet...those new residents will have jobs...they will bring along their businesses...if you're outnumbered where you live, how can you not go to these places?? It's like how Richmond used to be predominantly white, but now the city center is very Asian oriented. How to the ppl already living there not acknowledge their new surrounding? You bet they've gone to the T&T's, you bet they've gone to the Richmond Night Market, I know you have. Same sorta situation (minus the violence).

    In Lhasa, the region's ancient capital, there are now 100,000 Tibetans but twice as many outsiders, the Tibetan spiritual leader said. The majority of those are Han Chinese, the country's ethnic majority. (source)

    In the capital, Tibetans are outnumbered 2:1...what can they do? This is the reason for Dalai Lama's outcry for "cultural genocide".
  • edited April 2008
    I full heartedly believed in Woodrow Wilson's ideal of self-determination for all people. Therefore, I believed that people of all race and ethnicity should have a right to choose their own forms of government and, if they desire, free of foreign rule. This is therefore why I am heavily critical of the Chinese occupation of Tibet.

    First, the Tibetians are a completely different people than Han Chinese. They have different cultures, customs, and lanugage. The only reasons why Tibetians in the past become subugated by the Yuan and Qing Dynasty is because of conquest. A majority of Tibetians have no desire to be ruled by any foreign power and all the pretty flowery infrastructures the Chinese built within Tibet will not change my mind.

    Second, the Chinese have long undertook a campaign to eradicate Tibetian culture dating as far back to the Cultural Revolution. Today, the Chinese disrupted the traditional Tibetian custom of the "Two Lamas" by installing their own Panchen Lama in Tibet. This is a blatant violation of Tibetian culture and custom.
    siuying;25382 said:
    the China government pays all for their tuitions if they decide to pursue education and subsidizes living expenses for the poor and those who study to become a monk...
    Seriously?

    The War Hawk within me is telling me to post this...

    Solution to Chinese Occupation of Tibet: Google Operation Cyclone
  • edited April 2008
    primexx;25397 said:

    the dalai lama insists that he only wants autonomy within china, but the people who are rioting in tibet aren't exactly listening to what their religious leader is saying, and just doing their own thing over there.
    Not necessarily. Some of those monks are actually soldiers from the PLA. It's more of a "false flag event" that allow China to justify its actions.

    http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11921&size=A

    I saw a photo (I'll try to find it) taken by a British intelligence that shows these soldiers holding those robes.
  • edited April 2008
    Agentbob;25926 said:
    Not necessarily. Some of those monks are actually soldiers from the PLA. It's more of a "false flag event" that allow China to justify its actions.
    (Sarcasm)

    I may now begin to consider 9/11 as an inside job...
  • edited April 2008
    ^ lol.. has the thought of it being an inside job never cross your mind? or maybe i just find the conspiracy theory fascinating..
  • edited April 2008
    siuying;25939 said:
    ^ lol.. has the thought of it being an inside job never cross your mind? or maybe i just find the conspiracy theory fascinating..
    Like my history professor said, it is easy for someone to conceive these "illuminti, machiavellian style plots," however it nearly impossible for someone to implement these plans because we humans can not be THAT organize and farsighted. Also, there could be variables and factor x that could throw even the most well thought of plan off course.
  • edited April 2008
    Agentbob;25926 said:
    Not necessarily. Some of those monks are actually soldiers from the PLA. It's more of a "false flag event" that allow China to justify its actions.

    http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11921&size=A

    I saw a photo (I'll try to find it) taken by a British intelligence that shows these soldiers holding those robes.
    British Intelellignece ....:teeth:

    I saw a photo that shows soldiers holding the robes in an offical chinese webside few days ago , but there's evdience showing that the photo was taken in 2005.....
  • edited April 2008
    [youtube]1-KMVWRFLes [/youtube]

    That was pathetic of the protesters to target the torch like that.. I mean theres other ways of fighting the government other than the tarnishing the olympics (which are supposed to stand for unity)

    And honestly I aint a conspiracy nut or nething, but the way the western media (which revolves aound the US) is treating this, I could see the US government being behind it. They brainwash the western population so if nething goes wrong most ppl will support war. I mean i heard of a statistic where like around 40% (not too sure) of Americas population still doesn't know that there were no WMD's in Iraq. There are so many conspiracy about everything that the government does i wouldn't be surprised at some of them being true.
  • edited April 2008
    lazyGUY;26162 said:
    And honestly I aint a conspiracy nut or nething, but the way the western media (which revolves aound the US) is treating this, I could see the US government being behind it.
    Your belief is vaild. However, you have to understood that these "anti-Beijing Olympic sentiments" can be traced all the way back to China's Human Right issues as well as specific examples such as China's persecution of Falun Gong and the Darfur deal. The revolt in Tibet is probably the catalyst for these outbreak of these anti-Beijing sentiments across the globe.

    What seriously concerns me right now is that these may eventually grew into a new wave of anti-Chinese sentiment. Yes, I seriously have THIS little faith in society.
    I mean i heard of a statistic where like around 40% (not too sure) of Americas population still doesn't know that there were no WMD's in Iraq.
    Statistically, people who watch only Fox News are a lot worse informed than people who watched other news network. Therefore, that 40% is probably just those who watched only Fox News, pretty scary if you think about it
  • edited April 2008
    Can you really trust much of anything you see on ANY network? How much information if factually reported would result in major punitive action against some newspapers and stations.

    If it weren't for the internet a lot of things would probably never come into the open, since the internet isn't really worked around corporate sponsorships entirely.


    Regarding WMD in iraq, does anyone really know? It's entirely possible things may have been dismantled and moved, or that the Bush administration went on false information or lies altogether.
  • edited April 2008
    i doubt they were dismantled and moved..i mean the US governments credibility has gone down the drain since they found nothing. They could have easily have fabricated a story too if they wern't being watched by the UN/NATO. What is amazing is that no country has stood up and done nething about it (sanctions and whatnot) considering they have ruined a whole country because of a hunch.
  • edited April 2008
    THE GOVERNMENT KILLED KENNEDY!!
  • edited April 2008
    exactly
  • edited April 2008
    Student0667;26220 said:
    What seriously concerns me right now is that these may eventually grew into a new wave of anti-Chinese sentiment. Yes, I seriously have THIS little faith in society.
    i'm with you on this.. i can totally see it coming and honestly i'm quite prepared for it.. lol... it's not like there wasn't of it beforehand..

    the idea of tying politics into the Olympics is driving me insane.. it's like.. people have some sense.. sports and politics just don't and shouldn't be mixed.. i'm utterly disappointed in seeing the demonstration (borderline riot) in France on the news today.. on one hand half the world is pointing fingers at China while political leaders (not naming them) are endorsing these riots by doing nothing.. where's the love for sports? =(

    and about western media (i know i shouldn't generalize but let's collectively call it that) is pissing me off.. so global fucked up and reported a ONE SIDED view of the incident.. shouldn't there be some sort of public apology or announcement being made to admit their faults? so i might be a prick about this but i think China rightfully deserves that apology..

    @randomuser: that's what been officially reported.. but think about it.. the USA has X number of satellites up in space which they can virtually point into your bedroom.. and you tell me that the Bush Admin didn't see this beforehand? something doesn't add up here.. =\ or maybe hussein set him up .. bush after all only has the intelligence of a avg uni student.. =P and i'm only saying this as a possibility.. just the heads up for any pro-bushes out there..

    @lazyguy: yeah.. nobody stood up and here you have half the world going up against China on human rights issues.. what has the world come to.. @_@ and funny thing is many still follow American policies (Canada included) and that's just beyond me...

    and really.. i think it's just unwise for harper to say what he said about the Olympics... Canada shouldn't be pointing fingers when they're exactly in the same boat as China.. Quebec ring any bells here? i won't be surprised if the Quebecians take this opportunity to gain independence...if they see this potential leverage.. bad move prime minister harper.. =P
  • edited April 2008
    siuying either way i dont like to make claims about things i dont know for sure

    theres really so much none of us know for sure thats only been reported by media and officials we dont know

    im honestly not pro bush or anti bush in regards to the iraq war, i dont feel i have enough information to make a real judgement, theres too much secrecy etc involved with everything thats happened in relation to this, up until the point they overthrew saddam hussein things were peachy whether or whether not there were WMD, after that the real justification got slippery

    i just dont like jumping on bandwagons, its so easy for everyone to be like:
    "fuck bush" "oil this, oil that"

    i mean its entirely possible theyre there just for oil but i personally dont know this for sure so dont like to make statements to that extent

    theres things that go behind the scenes none of us will ever know, at times the world is just a stage and were nothing but viewers
  • edited April 2008
    ^ point taken on the uncertainty of my POV.. but that's the problem.. i don't think there will be a day where we're going to know for sure.. given like you said.. so much secrecy involved.. and Bush has been reluctant to disclose more information about it.. i mean.. where's the transparency when this war is witnessed literally by everyone in the world? sure we're viewers..but i think to a certain extent.. we're even being deprived of this role sometimes

    i think it's justifiable for people to figure it out based on the information available to us.. after all.. that's all we're being given.. what else can others do with limited info? people aren't making claims like they know the truth.. they're just throwing out some food for thought.. makes ppl re-think about the situation you know.. =)

    and kudos for not making claims about things you don't know for sure.. cause apparently the rest of the world doesn't seem to think that way.. which is quite sad..

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